Hello, my friend.
Welcome to this very special episode of the podcast where I’m going to be talking to the fabulous Morgan Gillis, who I’ve actually worked with recently this year to help me get more strategic with my Instagram content. So I’m excited to start implementing what we worked on because I haven’t actually started implementing yet.
But I wanted to have a conversation with Morgan today because I want to bring in other business owners who offer different services to me, but who have actionable advice within this specific field that can help you either save time or optimize your time, and who are also willing to not only share some of the things that they do to help them manage their own time, like what hacks they found useful for them because everyone is different, but who are also open to sharing some of their struggles with creating their own work life balance or whatever it is in their business. Like juggling all the things.
Because I think that sometimes we think that we’re the only ones who are struggling to juggle it all or who are getting in our own way even when we know what we should be doing to make it easier for ourselves. So we’re just going to dive in. So welcome, Morgan. Thank you so much for joining us here today. So please introduce yourself and what you do and then to start, let us know how you started in your business and also what your party trick is.
Morgan Gillis:
I love it. First of all, am I the first guest on here?
Kirsty Knight:
You might be.
Morgan Gillis:
Okay.
Kirsty Knight:
Okay.
Morgan Gillis:
We don’t know yet.
Kirsty Knight:
I mean, you’re the first one that we’re recording, so I don’t know if it’s going to go out first, but yeah, potentially TBD.
Morgan Gillis:
Well, I’m honored. Regardless.
Kirsty Knight:
No pressure.
Morgan Gillis:
Yeah, totally. So, yeah, my name is Morgan, and basically in its simplest format, like, I help coaches sign clients on Instagram, so that’s pretty much what I do. And in terms of how I got started, I would say that I got started not being able to do that. Probably like why most people start their businesses. That was my biggest struggle. I got certified in health coaching and fitness coaching and CrossFit and nutrition and had quadruple certifications. And probably for five years I was on Struggle Street and just like could not figure it out. Waiting tables to pay bills forever. Really treating my business like a hobby, kind of, and just not knowing just really not knowing how to sign clients. And so I think once I transcended that and really was like, wow. Once I had some really big results and figured like, oh, I think at one point it was like super dramatic, but I went from making like $1,000 a month to making my 1st 20K month in a very short space of time. And I was like, holy freaking crap. Like, just blew up my paradigm of what was possible. And so I think, yeah, that’s kind of how I got into this, is trying to do it in the health coaching side and really not figuring it out. And then once I did figure it out, I was like, oh, I got to kind of teach this. And I think the last thing you said was like, what’s your party trick? So this is going to tell you guys a lot about me, but my party trick is just not to attend the party. I just don’t party that much, so I don’t have a party trick.
Kirsty Knight:
You’ve never been a party animal?
Morgan Gillis:
Very rarely. Maybe when I was in college in 2011, maybe I went to I had three rocking nights in two years. It’s never really been a huge thing for me.
Kirsty Knight:
Okay, fine.
Morgan Gillis:
Yeah.
Kirsty Knight:
So you like to stay in?
Morgan Gillis:
She let me off. Yeah, she let me off the hook. I’m a baby grandma.
Kirsty Knight:
How oldie?
Morgan Gillis:
I’m 30.
Kirsty Knight:
Eats their own fine. That’s the whole point of the question, to let us know who you are. So perfect. Nailed it.
Morgan Gillis:
Nailed it.
Kirsty Knight:
Okay, so the first reason why I want to bring people on who know what they’re doing in their field is because I think that one of the best ways to optimize your time is through getting better at different areas of your business. So the more you work on your skill sets in marketing, selling, leading a team, running your business, delivering all of those things, the less time it will take you to get good results in all of those areas. So that’s why I worked with you, because I had basically spent well over a year posting shitty content on Instagram. Pretty much that was just whatever came to mind that wasn’t really sort of hitting the mark across the spectrum of content that you need to create, really to help your people go from strangers to actually knowing you and trusting you and also thinking that you have the solution to their problem and then buying from you. I wasn’t doing that whole range of marketing content. So I worked with you just to help me get really clear on what are the different aspects and also really optimize my time through knowing and understanding a bit more of how to use Instagram as a platform. Because if you’re just posting one type of content on Instagram and you’re not using any of the features and you’re not doing any of the other things like the ecosystem of really building your business on Instagram, then you are going to be just wasting time and wasting effort. It’s very frustrating and a lot of people won’t get the results from it anyway. So that’s why I started working with you. So can you say more about that, what you see or the typical things they need to do that’s different?
Morgan Gillis:
Yeah, totally. I think this is a brilliant point and I actually think to some degree you’re giving me a little bit of an AHA moment of like when you actually increase your skills. That’s a productivity hack. Like I feel a Threads quote coming on about this, right? That’s a quote card right there. But yeah, you hit the nail on the head with the ecosystem. And the interesting thing with Instagram is it all does really work together. Optimizing your profile, setting it up. So it’s like a sales funnel, like what you’re putting out in your content, making sure you’ve got the right kinds of content, making sure that you’re using. I have defined things like stories are for this, feed is for this, you know what I mean? But like selling on your stories, the back end of Instagram, meaning the conversations and the engagement, all that stuff goes together and it really is a whole system. So when you can learn how to almost have it play nice together and you’re using all the things like example if you post the right kind of content but you don’t do the back end engagement type of stuff then that amazing content that you posted doesn’t go as far as it could because you didn’t do the back end work. And so yeah, if you do increase your skills around that, it just makes the effort that you’re putting in go even farther. I think another perfect example of this is one that’s easy to share data about is like let’s say sales calls. Let’s say you’re not that great at closing sales and your close rate is 25% cool. And let’s say you’re spending 10 hours a week on doing sales calls and your close rate is 25% cool. If you got your close rate to 50%, you doubled it. You can make the same amount of sales in literally half the time.
Kirsty Knight:
Yeah.
Morgan Gillis:
Like you just went from ten, you just got 5 hours back in your week just from getting better at sales and you’re still making the same money. Or you can just still put in the 10 hours and you just made double the money. So it’s just way more effective, right?
Kirsty Knight:
Absolutely. Yeah. And I love that because the other thing I definitely wasn’t used, it wasn’t just the content that I was putting out wasn’t great for all the reasons I also wasn’t using it like an ecosystem. I was like, oh God, I don’t want to do all the things, but you can be putting out great content. And then, yeah, like you said, it’s not getting in front of the right people, enough of the people. And if you’re not making offers, then you can be creating loads of great content and it can be being seen, but then you’re not actually selling, you’re not actually inviting people to know how to work with you or how to.
Morgan Gillis:
Get the solution 100%. What’s the purpose of creating feed content? It’s like mostly to get visibility followers, visibility, eyeballs. But let’s say I always pick on Sandra. Let’s say Sandra saw that piece of content, right? Amazing. You captured Sandra’s attention that day and then she went on your stories and guess what you didn’t do? You didn’t be like, hey Sandra, I could help you solve this problem. Here’s how to work with me. And so that moment when Sandra just also happened to be having a bad day, she wasn’t like making a lot of she was having a down month and she was like, oh my God, I really need help signing clients, or whatever. And had you made an offer on your stories that day when you captured her attention? She had a problem in that moment, like she was feeling emotional about it. She may have reached out to you and DM’d you clients, but you didn’t have an offer in your stories that day. And so your content did its job, but you had no offer on your stories and the content just wasn’t that effective.
Kirsty Knight:
Yeah. And so it was a complete waste of your time in creating it in the first place. Pretty much completely. But it can be if you’re never making the offer, if you’re never getting the sale. I think one of the things that I was taught early on was to nurture and nurture and warm people up and warm people up. And I think that that’s good advice for some people. But also there are people who are ready to buy today who are ready to buy if you’re warming them up for a reason. You’re trying to help them see that you’re the person to help them, but you have to invite them in. Otherwise it’s a bit like the doctor telling you, oh my God, this is all the things that you need, but then not telling you how you can actually get what you need. They’re not writing you the prescription, they’ve told you what you need, but then they’re not actually helping you get it from the pharmacy or whatever. It’s that final piece. So if you could summarize, I mean, obviously you do a whole course on this, but what are the things, the core things that you would say you need to be doing on Instagram? Using the whole ecosystem? How does that work together?
Morgan Gillis:
Yeah, totally. So I would say first core thing is like making sure that you have your account set up correctly the biggest things for this is just like this is like a one and done type of thing. It’s like making sure that your account is optimized, turn into a sales funnel, what have you. But making sure that your bio calls out who you help, what you help them do. There’s a call to action there. Leveraging the crap out of the story highlights that are beneath your profile to put tons of results and social proof there. And the Pin posts actually now are even better to leverage than the story stuff you can have in the story covers because you see them, they’re in your face all the time. Right? And so making sure that you’ve got some just really like power play type of posts there that you could have, frameworks if you got it, showing your methodology, social proof, whether that’s yourself or your clients, maybe your story. That’s actually one that I don’t have right there right now, but I probably could tell a bit of my backstory how I got into this, et cetera. Right. Probably the origin story that’s in my Master class needs to be on a Pin post there. Right. But just making sure that front facing that is your storefront. I still don’t have a website. Probably did more than 500K in sales. Still no friggin website. All through just Instagram and having it set up, right? But that’s number one. You got to make sure your storefront is set up. And as a side note on that, one thing that’s going to make that really, really challenging is if you don’t have the clarity on your niche and your ideal client, it’s going to be really hard to write that bio. And so if you can’t write a really good solid BIOS like, hey, I helped this person, I helped this person lose ten to 20 pounds of fat in 90 days or something. If you can’t say that, then probably have some work to do. Not like an Instagram thing, but as like a foundational business principle. You need clarity on that for sure, or else your content is going to suck going forward. Right? So that’s one big thing is like setting it up. The next big thing comes to really I’d say feed content and we can loop back around on this if you want. Because I think you alluded to maybe wanting to chat about this kind of before we hopped on this. But like the different kinds of content to be posting, there’s so many different kinds. There’s so many ways to do it. Like you want to put your own flavor in there. But I would say most people really overdo it with the tips. Me too. I like to say like, you know, for for me, I’m guilty. So guilty. Yeah.
Kirsty Knight:
Yeah.
Morgan Gillis:
We’re both it’s just, it’s it’s the easiest thing. It’s like we just like, let me provide value. Let me nurture you more. Right? But those aren’t necessarily like you said those posts that really convert people, that really activate people and have them slide into your DMs. So I would say frameworks are big because they show that you have a process. Probably one of the number one things I did to, I don’t know, four or five X. My business probably like, initially the last year is just like, posting more testimonials and social proof and telling those stories and just showing that I just continued to get people the result. Right, so that’s another big one because people are like, oh, that’s cool that you gave me some tips courtesy on productivity, but how do I know that you could really help me? How do I know that it’s not some person posting random tips that you got off chat GPT or something? Right, so, yeah, framework, social proof is a big one. Problem aware. If your people aren’t super problem aware, like, my people, they know it’s keeping them up at night that they don’t have clients. Like, I don’t need to do as much problem wear I might need to do problem wear stuff on like, five signs. Your messaging is off. Like, they might not know why they’re not signing clients. Right, but that could be one. And then what am I forgetting here? Oh, belief surgery is actually a huge one. Maybe people probably have no idea what that is, but like, removing the beliefs that are preventing people from investing with you and giving them the empowering ones that they need to make those moves. Belief shifting content really one of my I like it.
Kirsty Knight:
I’ve never heard anyone else say it. So, like an example for my it’s good just for specifics to help people here, is that so one of the solutions that I help people implement in their business to save time is to hire their first team member or their next team member type thing. And I coach on all the resistance and the fears around that to get them to do it, if that is the thing that they need to free up time. But one of the beliefs that they have is that I’m not at the right place in my business yet. I’m not at consistent enough income yet, I’m not at that level yet. I should be able to do it on my own. It’s cheaper and quicker and easier if I do it myself or I won’t be able to find someone who can do this task. They’re all the kinds of things that are getting in the way, not just of working with me, but of hiring anyone to help them with that thing because they think that’s not you’re pulling a face. What’s the face?
Morgan Gillis:
Oh, I’m just like agreeing with you and also Chuckling, because I have things to say about this. And it’s just funny because we talk about this a lot. It’s like every time you talk about what’s going on, I’m like, yeah, I’m your ideal client.
Kirsty Knight:
Yeah, you could definitely hire some extra help in your business. So that’s an example of beliefs that you’d want to shift. So to do that in your content, it would be things like it’s actually costing you money if that VA or whoever you’re hiring could be freeing up your time that you could then charge out at a higher rate than what you’re actually paying them, or it’s actually not quicker and easier for you to do it yourself. Or the reason why you’re not at consistent income is because you’re wasting time on things that are not helping you with that consistent income. And so actually, if you took that money and you put it into having someone do some of the stuff for you, you could then focus on the needle moving task. So that’s like an example. Totally, yeah.
Morgan Gillis:
And another example for you even and just total hack, by the way, for figuring out what piece of content you should put out. That’s like belief shifting. Belief shifting content is literally like answering objections is basically what it is. There’s a complete correlation between what you’re going to do at the end of a sales call and the content that you’re putting out. Because, like, example, let’s say that I get on the phone with you and I’m like, okay, well, I haven’t hired anyone. I’m doing everything myself. And then at the end, I’m like, yeah, that sounds good. You give me your offer. And you’re like, yeah, that sounds good. And then I’m like, okay, I need to think about it. Right. And really, probably this is just a hypothetical scenario. I can see myself doing it’s. Like it’s like, what am I really thinking about? Well, in my head, I’m like, okay, cool. I definitely know that I need to get help. But then I would be thinking like, okay, well, why do I need a coach to help me hire people? Why couldn’t I just hire them? Why couldn’t I just figure this out myself? Right? And so that would be probably you telling a story. Like, the easiest way to break a belief. Like that is like, you would then tell a story about how you had the same experience, you had the same thought, and here’s what happens, and it wasn’t fucking good. Pardon my French. Right. And the reason for that is because you still had these subconscious beliefs that were holding you back, which is why you have whatever you do NFT or Hypno or in your stuff, and you remove these beliefs. Right?
Kirsty Knight:
Yeah.
Morgan Gillis:
And so the easiest way to break these beliefs, whether it’s on a sales call or it’s in a piece of content, and honestly, it should be both. Like, if you just got off a sales call with sue and she gave you that I try not to pick on Sandra, but you just got off.
Kirsty Knight:
A sales call with sue.
Morgan Gillis:
It’s all the s. They’re all s’s. Anyways, Sandra’s the new Karen, if you guys haven’t noticed, but if you just got off a sales call with her and that’s the objection she gave you, not only should you, you better have bonds prepared for that for the next person because you’re going to get that again. But you best go turn that into a piece of content because there’s 15 other people in your audience who are like, have the same thing, but you’ve never been on sales call with them and that’s why they’re not reaching out to you. Right. And so you have to remove those belief.
Kirsty Knight:
Right? Yeah. I love it as an example for me because that absolutely did happen to me. I didn’t hire a coach to help me hire my first person, but whenever the reason why I wasn’t hiring help is because of a money scarcity within me. And then every time I had an opportunity to save my ten pound an hour on the cleaner, I was like, oh, I won’t get the cleaning company in today. I can do this. And I reverted straight back into the old pattern of me cleaning the showers and the toilets and the tents at a ten pound an hour job rather than me taking that time and working out how to get more customers and improve our marketing for the campsite and do different things. So really that’s why I needed the coach. Not necessarily because I couldn’t take that initial step, but that you can place like an upper limit on yourself, sort of a ceiling as to what you can earn or just a cycle that you keep repeating a pattern in yourself. So even if you get out of it, you see this a lot with weight loss. I’ve lost some weight. But you’ve still kept all the same sort of limiting belief about yourself and same identity, all of that that you need to shift, you need to break out of in order to keep the result that you’ve created.
Morgan Gillis:
Totally. And that right there. Just as a side note, if you have these beliefs that you need to remove or objections you need to handle, whatever best way to do it is through stories or analogies. And you just gave a great analogy. People can understand that, right? That’s a post for you. And you could put that in the content. Like, we’re doing coaching right now. We’re doing coaching call right now.
Kirsty Knight:
This is great. Why didn’t I do it to face before?
Morgan Gillis:
But you could put that in the content of just a tip for everyone listening is like if you’re trying to illustrate a point, but it’s harder to grasp within that thing then give them something that they already understand. That’s the same thing. So if you’re like, you know, have you if you could literally write this in your post, like, have you ever seen people before where they’ve lost 100 pounds and then they’ve gained it back? It’s like, well, why do you think that is? Well, it’s because this thing is happening, right? And the same thing is going on with your money story. Have you ever tried to hire a VA and you had them for a couple of weeks and then you reverted back to doing yourself? Why do you think that is? It’s the same reason that people gain weight back is because there’s subconscious stuff that’s there and if you don’t remove it and fix it, you’ll just keep running the same patterns.
Kirsty Knight:
Yeah, I love it. Okay, so let’s recap because otherwise there’s going to be too much of it. Okay? So first step is like sort out your Instagram bio, optimize your account niche, all that, everything, the whole look.
Morgan Gillis:
Make it sexy. So people land there and they’re like, whoa, this page is for me, this store is for me. I’m attracted to this.
Kirsty Knight:
Yeah, amazing. Make it sexy. And also to do that you need the clarity on exactly who you serve and all of that stuff. Then the actual types of content you want to be putting out.
Morgan Gillis:
So we’ve touched on frameworks, social proof, problem aware. We just touched on belief surgery, and the last one’s tips. But we all know that one. That’s what we all do too much of, right? It’s the nurture content.
Kirsty Knight:
Don’t just right UPSEE. We’re already good at that. This should be super helpful because I think that people do not like I wasn’t doing really look at it. Even like an ecosystem with all content. Like it needs to be like the whole tree, not just the leaf. Okay, amazing. So what else?
Morgan Gillis:
So those are the I would say the first two parts of the Instagram ecosystem, right? And then I would say more. So the last two are then you’ve got your stories, right? Which I personally see your stories as being serving two main functions, which is like connecting with people on a deeper level, showing them day in the life vibes, like letting them actually get a feel for you. That’s not some curated feed post. Well, I guess maybe there’s three. The other piece would be like engagement, like engaging, like giving them polls, giving them questions, giving them places that they can interact with you. Because then, I mean, there’s a ton of great things about that, but you can loop those back around to conversations, which leads us to the DMs and stuff like that. But personal life engagement and the stories are the best place to talk about your offer because if you like number one, it’s more intimate in general. But if you were to go make a very salesy post and you were talking about, here’s this program that I have, and here’s the benefits and the features, and you made a carousel about that, it just wouldn’t get pushed that far because it’s a salesy post. The algorithm just won’t push that out.
Kirsty Knight:
Right?
Morgan Gillis:
But your stories are always there. People can always click into that and so they end up being the feed is the place really to get visibility eyeballs to some degree, it helps you grow your following. But once you have that and people are going to pay attention, your stories are the best place to kind of build maybe a deeper connection, let people engage with you in a different way. But certainly to sell your offers is like the biggest thing on stories. So that’s kind of like part three of the ecosystem, and then part four is the back end. And I think honestly, so many people leave so much money on the table with this. And this is I would say I’ve gotten honestly through the mentors that I’ve hired to get better at marketing this year is really what I got better was with attraction marketing. Like content stuff, which has helped a ton. But I think the way that I got successful in the beginning, I didn’t have clarity on my niche. I couldn’t do attraction marketing. I couldn’t do that through content because I didn’t have a clue on my niche and that stuff. But what I got really, really good at was like lead generation and conversations and relationships and the things that you can’t see it on Instagram. It’s like the back end of Instagram, but it’s like paying attention to who’s paying attention, like, who’s liking your posts, who’s commenting on your posts, who’s watching your stories, who’s engaging starting relationships, like knowing how to flow things in the DMs to build relationships and book calls. I don’t know if anyone listening on this podcast has ever heard of appointment setters, but never heard of appointment setter. Really crazy. Okay.
Kirsty Knight:
I feel like well, I haven’t I.
Morgan Gillis:
Can’T speak for everyone, but to me I’m like, everybody knows. What is that? It’s really like you’re essentially hiring people to kind of do some of that engagement, like on your Instagram account so that they can book calls for you. Like an appointment setter is literally to set appointments. And there are people who do that stuff. Okay, but it’s so interesting. Like, I’m seeing that rise more and more and more and more and it’s like, man, I’ve always been doing this. This is what some of the stuff’s in my course, you know? But it’s like it just if you’re only putting out the content, like, just to give you an example, really tangible example, this is one of those pieces that you could be doing the other things, but if you’re not doing this piece, it’s a really crucial part of the ecosystem. And now all the other things you’re doing on your feed and your stories or whatever is like just you’re not getting as much bang for your buck as you could. And so, like, total example, I do pay attention to who’s watching my stories. And there was one particular girl who I could see that she was watching my stories a lot. And I was like, okay, so she’s more engaged than the average person. Your most engaged people are your story watchers, like, your religious story watchers who float up to the top or they’re like, very warm leads. Right, yeah, exactly. But you’ll see, like, the people that have the strongest relationship with you will be near the top and the people who have. Right? And so I was paying attention to that, and I was like, okay, there’s something here. And I clicked to her profile, I’m like, okay, well, she’s definitely my ideal client, and it looks like I can help her. And then I put out on my feed a piece of social proof content where I was telling a story here’s how my client went from whatever it was $400 a month to $7,000 in 90 days or whatever, right? And I saw that she liked it, and I was like, okay, so she liked this. She saw this piece of social proof. I know that she’s been watching me for a while. And my stories I have a feeling, like you start to get a spidey sense for this. It’s like, I have a feeling that this person is a very warm lead, like, maybe almost a hot lead, like, ready to and choir. And that’s when you just start to know. And I was like, you know what? I think I just need to start a quick conversation, engage a little bit with this person, and they might just come out of the woodwork without me even asking.
Kirsty Knight:
Right?
Morgan Gillis:
And I literally just went to their stories, saw that they had posted a recipe that they were doing, and I commented on it and just said something along the lines of, like, oh, my God, this looks so delicious. Or like, these are all my favorite foods, which it totally was. Like, it wasn’t some BS comment. That wasn’t true. It was true. It was how I would speak to a friend. Right, right. But just that was the bit of engagement that she needed to literally watch my stories that day where I had an offer up and see the call to action and DM me clients. Right.
Kirsty Knight:
The way I look at it is people are a bit funny. It’s almost like if you’re walking in the street and somebody’s not looking at you, sometimes they won’t smile because you haven’t made eye contact. But if you’re walking down the street and you both look at each other and then there’s a little bit of a smile, it gives permission to the other person, like, oh, this person is safe for me to engage with. So I see it as, like, a safety thing, whereas the slightest bit of engagement just makes them feel safe to actually talk to you and say hi or whatever.
Morgan Gillis:
Totally. I love that you’re just doing more analogies is good stuff. I would agree with that. And I would say I also think I think in some weird way, it makes it more real. It’s just different when you just see someone’s content and they’re, like, talking at you with content, but then you’re like, oh, this person actually engaged with just me, right? Like, they’re speaking to just me right now. Like, it’s one to one. Like, it’s just more intimate, I think, too.
Kirsty Knight:
Right? Yeah, I love that. And one thing I will say about you, and we talked about this just before I came on, just to make sure, but I was very anti. Not that there’s anything wrong with doing it, but for me personally, I don’t love getting cold pitched DMs and things like that, where people just are like, hey, do you want to buy my thing? Or whatever. Like, hey, you look like you need bleeds. Here’s a free thing. I just don’t love it. Usually they get my name wrong. That’s never a good start. They’re like, hey, Christy, and I’m like, well, you kind of misspelled my name. And so it always puts my back I just don’t even engage with them. But the way that you taught it to me anyway, was very much like, just be a human, be nice, be a norm, normal person. See if there is anything that you could connect on at a human level. Like, oh, this person went to this same college that I went to. That’s like a perfect thing that you showed me that makes it feel like you actually are just engaging and being social on a social media platform. And I was very anti that before because I was like, oh, that feels gross, because you’re, like, messaging them. But the truth is, if you’re a business owner, you have to be meeting new people somehow. You have to start building relationships with new people. And maybe they won’t become your client, but maybe they will become friends. Maybe they will become people you can collaborate with. Maybe they don’t need your services. But then they have a friend who says, I’m really struggling with this, and they know that, oh, I’ve seen this person, and she seems all right to refer you. So I think that you’ve got to be a bit more open minded as to when you are reaching out, that you are reaching out to form a connection in some way. And maybe that doesn’t go anywhere, and you don’t have to do it in a sleazy way. You don’t have to make an offer. You can literally just connect. And that way they get an opportunity to find you to see your content, and then they can decide for themselves if they’re going to carry on watching your stuff, and then you can have more of a conversation.
Morgan Gillis:
I wholeheartedly agree. And I remember being at an event this past year with who was it? Was Bradley at coaching Con. And he literally one of the things he said on stage is, like, the more hands you shake, the more money you make. And it’s just like, to some degree, it’s just certain number of connections. Like, it is a numbers game in that sense. But if you go into those conversations and your genuine intention is like, I’m here to connect with people and lead with value first before anything. Right. The sale comes after that, if it comes. But my thing with outreach or reach outs is actually the biggest difference, I think, between kind of what I teach and how I teach it. And what some other people teach is they are doing reach outs to make a sale right off the hop. Whereas I’m not doing reach outs to make a sale. I’m doing reach outs to grow my following. I’m doing reach outs to connect with people and get in front of people that are we’ve reverse engineered to be our ideal clients, right. And to connect with them in a way that they do click to your profile, which is optimized, and it looks great, and it speaks directly to them, and they’re like, yeah, this chick looks interesting. I would follow her. Great. Now you’re in my world, and at some point, if you hate being my world, cool, you’ll unfollow me, I’ll never see you watch my stories, I’ll never see you like my stuff, and we’ll never speak again. And that’s great. That wasn’t for you, but maybe you did get in there and you’re like, okay, actually, this is great. I’m getting a ton of value. I start watching your stories, and you reach out and DM me clients one day. And so it’s just way more it’s just a longer game, I think is kind of what I play with that, right? Yeah.
Kirsty Knight:
And I love that. Okay, fabulous. So that’s like the last piece of really speaking to people, engaging with their content, seeing who’s in your world maybe making the first move just to connect and then just see what goes from there.
Morgan Gillis:
Yeah, those are pretty much that’s the ecosystem you’re running, basically, to, in some ways, bring people in, lead, capture, nurture people, lead, nurture, get people to inquire lead conversion. And then the only other thing is that’s, like, the ecosystem that you’re running, sometimes you decide that you want more leads into the ecosystem. And that might be you might do podcasts, you might run paid ads, you might double down on your organic content, like, whatever. There’s more ways to get people into the ecosystem, but that is the ecosystem itself, for sure.
Kirsty Knight:
I love it. Okay. And then the other piece of this that I wanted to talk to you about is really like, another aspect of optimizing your time. So obviously we want to be optimizing your time, actually making your marketing better and making the platform work for you. So not just not neglecting areas that actually help work together to get the results that you want. So we’re making the most of the time that you spend on that platform. But then the next piece of that is then obviously most of those people for most service based providers will probably have a sales call. Yes. Which obviously you want to work on your skill sets. I know that you teach us too, and we won’t dive into this in depth, but how to get better at actually selling a sales call and serving the person and finding that they’re the right fit for what you offer. But one way that you can again save time, and this is what we’re going to dive into, is how you can sell in the DMs without needing to book that sales call. Because that could save you. I mean, how much time do you think that saves you if you actually learn the skills of selling in the DMs? Again, same. Like not sleazy. They’re interested in what you have to offer. They have a problem, you have the solution. They recognize that they are willing and able to find out more about it. What would you teach or help in that area about selling in the DMs to save time?
Morgan Gillis:
Yeah, totally. So the first thing that I would say is I think that the selling in the DMs piece how would I say this? It may actually take the same amount of time that’s entirely possible that it takes the same amount of time. However, I think it’s just completely different because it’s infinitely more flexible. I just don’t want to be like a wall full of calls on my Google Calendar that just gives me so much anxiety. And so especially if you like to travel like I do, or you just don’t like as much rigid stuff on your schedule that locks you into whatever, it just gives you the space in your day, when you have free time, you can be selling in the DMs, you can be interacting. And so I think it’s more flexible. And I also just think it’s a different quality of energy exchange. I think it’s different when you have to be on video and on camera and you have to be in front of someone like, you know what I mean? But I could be outside walking and getting my steps in and selling in the DMs. And so it’s a different quality of energy exchange. The time might be the same, but the flexibility and the type of energy is just different. Does that make sense?
Kirsty Knight:
Yeah, and I think that’s a great point to make because it’s not always about cutting down the hours. It’s also about making it work within your life. So, yeah, like, flexibility in my eyes, I’m the same. I love to travel. I got fully booked in October with like one to one clients, and I actually did do some traveling. And the idea was, oh, this is going to be fine. I’m going to see if I can run this business, obviously from anywhere in the world. And that worked. But I also had no time for myself to enjoy my holiday, so I was like, actually, this is too many calls for me. Plus, I have voice issues, so that wasn’t great. But for me, too, I actually do have a limit on how many clients I actually take one to one, because I don’t want the rigidity in my schedule.
Morgan Gillis:
Totally. And that’s a good point, too. It can be very helpful sometimes if you don’t have the greatest WiFi, too, depending if you’re traveling or maybe for you, maybe you’re texting instead of being on a zoom call because you’re trying to save your voice. Right.
Kirsty Knight:
What’s your advice around selling in the DMs? What do you actually mean by that? Is it literally like, oh, hey, you’ve had the conversation. They seem interested. How does that flow?
Morgan Gillis:
Yeah, so I would say it’s so funny. This comes so automatically to me that I actually have a post in my Instagram pulled up, so I don’t forget anything in the structure. But I would say, like, truly big distinction for selling in the DMs. Selling in the DMs is not just like, okay, here’s the price. Right? I don’t think that’s going to serve anyone. Probably you’re just going to get the link to buy. Yeah, you’re just going to get a lot of price objections and have no clients and scare everyone away. But I think the key thing with selling in the DMs is it actually should follow a very, very similar syntax to a sales call. You’re just replicating it in the DMs. And so I think some people kind of mess this up sometimes because they’re like skipping steps. But I have in front of me, I’ll roll through this really quickly, but it’s just a carousel. I did on the seven steps to selling in the DMs, the first one I say is like, diagnosing before you prescribe. And so that’s where when they do reach out to you and I’m talking like I’m talking when I say selling in the DMs, specifically I’m talking about here is when you get an inquiry, right? So if you’re a fat loss coach and you have in your bio, like, DM me, fat loss, and someone DMs you, fat loss, this is how you go about it, right? The first thing for me is like, I will diagnose what’s going on. And so I’m like, okay, cool. I’ll put my curiosity hat on, go a little bit deeper. Cool. What’s going on in your world? Like, what are you working on? What do you think is the problem? I’ll often run through their niche, their offer, their whatever. I’m like, can I really help you? You know what I mean? Right. And then if I think that I can help them, I’m kind of like, okay, this is almost in that inquiry phase, too. You’re like, okay, well, where are you where are you trying to go? Just like you would on a sales call. What’s point A? Same thing, right? A little bit of connection, a little bit of rapport. You’re doing that in the dams a little bit, right? And then it’s point a Where are you right now? Where are we starting? And then it’s point B. Okay, where are you trying to go? Okay, why is that important to you? What do we have now? We have a gap, right? And then it’s like, if I think I can help you bridge that gap, then we can start talking about the program. So, like, the first piece is sort of getting clarity on point A, point B, if you can even help them, right?
Kirsty Knight:
Right.
Morgan Gillis:
Once you have that clarity, kind of the next piece is like sharing the name of your program if you have one, and the big dream outcome. So for me, I would say something along the lines of like, okay, it’s the full time fast track, and this is a four month coaching program for the coach that wants to go full time online and hit consistent five to ten K months, right? So you kind of share that and then what you’re going to cover. So it’s like the name of the program, what the outcome is, and then what you’re going to cover. So that’s where I might share a framework that I’ve already got on a post, pinned post. I just send it to them in the DMs and I’m like, cool, this is the four parts we’re going to cover, right? Niche offer, legion sales. And you’re kind of going through that and you’re like, does that sound like what you need? Right? So you’re very outcome focused. And then if they’re like, yeah, totally. Ten out of ten, that sounds like what I need, you’re like, okay, cool. Then you’re getting into the next piece of this is kind of like now you’re almost more into the features. You’ve already talked about benefits, dream outcome. Now you’re more into the features of like, okay, it’s four months here’s when the live calls are here’s, the access you get to me, here’s what the month, all that stuff, right? You’re like, does that sound good? Does that make sense to you? All that works. They’re like, yeah, totally. So now you’ve kind of made sure that you can help. You’ve got a gap. You kind of like, diagnosed. Then you talked about the name of the program, the benefits, then you talked about sort of the features almost, right? And they’re like, bought in on the program itself. Then you’re kind of getting into, okay, then you share the price. Once you have the gap and they know that your program can solve the problem and they see the value, then you share the price and payment plan stuff. I like to give a fast action bonus too. Like some reason for them to make a decision that could be some degree off the price or something like that, but have some sort of urgency in the offer that you make a risk reversal if you have it, if you have any sort of guarantee to kind of take away that risk. For people like just proper sales call practices. And then the last one is answering objections, which we almost kind of talked about earlier, is like, there’s probably going to be something that comes up. It might be price, it might be I don’t know if this is going to work for me. I don’t have the time. I’m moving this, that the other thing. Why could I just do this myself? Why do I need a coach? Right. Yeah, right. And then permission, I would say, to share the if they’re like, yeah, I’m into it. And they’re like, I want to do it, I say, Cool. Is it okay if I send you a link so that you can pay and I get permission for that? Hopefully that makes sense.
Kirsty Knight:
I love that. Yeah, that really does. That’s very helpful. Yeah, I love the way that you teach that. I definitely have had my own mindset issues, as you know, about selling and different sales tools and tactics that are used. It’s funny. What helped me get over that was actually thinking about other businesses, like supermarkets and things like this. They put on two bags of apples for this, buy one, get one free. And I was like, why do I find it weird in the coaching world and not in Tesco, in the supermarket? Because it’s the same principle. It’s like, it’s an urgency, the office here today type thing, all of that, it’s so interesting that our minds have converted it into, this is evil and bad. And so for anyone who is feeling a little bit like, I don’t want to use any of that, first of all, you don’t have to use anything that you don’t feel comfortable with. But I would definitely explore why do you feel uncomfortable? Because the way that Morgan teaches it, and the way that I see it, too, is you. You as long as you have a product or a service that you are good at delivering and you’re not actually a scam artist and you do have their best interests at heart and you do want to help them, then really the sales call and everything that you’re doing is because they have opted in. They want it, they’re interested in it. And I think sometimes we get tripped up because we think people don’t want it, and then we’re trying to push it on them. We’re never talking about that. We’re always talking about they put their hand up, they’ve said, I’m struggling with this, can you help me? That’s who we’re talking to here. And then they want to know all the details. So that’s what we’re doing. We’re trying to find out, can we actually help them? Like the analogy with the doctor, it’s no good if the person is going to the doctor and saying, this is what I want help with. And then the doctor is like, that’s not my specialty. He’s asking those questions to make sure that he can actually help them. And so we want to do the same thing and then the same with objections. It’s not necessarily objections. Like I don’t want to do it, so pressure me into buying it’s very much. I want to do it, but I’m concerned that I won’t have the time. Like, can you help me find the time? Or I want to do it, but I’m worried about the money. Okay, let’s make sure that we know for sure that we can help you. And that’s I think the piece that makes it okay for anyone to be using those tools and tactics if their intentions are good, if that makes sense.
Morgan Gillis:
100%. Yeah. And for the record, with the objections piece of it, that shouldn’t feel pushy, it shouldn’t feel forced, it should actually feel like you have in their best interest in mind. And honestly, if I get on a discovery call, like even if I got on a discovery call with you and we were talking about your program, I want you to help walk me through these objections because I know that I’m going to stay stuck if I keep doing what I’m doing. And so I want you to lead that conversation. I want you to show me a perspective that I’m not seeing. Like example, let’s do an easy one. Like a weight loss example is like, let’s say I’ve been undereating like crazy forever and my hormones are all messed up and I need to hire a nutrition coach to do a proper reverse diet and stop screwing up my hormones. Right, right. I want someone to call me out at the end of that and be like, okay, well, but let’s be realistic here. What are you going to do if you don’t get help with this? You’ve been doing this for the past twelve years, and we know where you’re at here. And the more you dig this hole deeper, you’re digging the whole deeper. Are you going to change your behavior? Like if we get off this call and we don’t decide to work together, just realistically, you kind of want someone to help you answer those things because that’s how they’re going to move forward and they want that too. And that’s actually like the first part of you coaching probably is answering objections. It’s really showing up for them.
Kirsty Knight:
Yeah, I love that you say that as well. The one thing again that helped shift it for me was thinking about a doctor example. If somebody came in and they were going to die, they’re on their road to dying, basically, and they’re smoking and they’re drinking and they’re sending themselves to an early grave. It’s the doctor’s responsibility to be like, hey, if you keep going on this path, this is what’s going to happen to you, I’m guessing this is probably probable that you’re going to end up here and they are trying to persuade the person to take a different route. Like that is what they’re trying to do, but it’s for the person, it’s not for the Doctor. The Doctor. It’s not solely for the Doctor to have a job type thing.
Morgan Gillis:
Totally, yeah. So if you lead with that intention, you will feel really good with your sales and your objection answering, because it’s just like they’re your number one priority, right, not the sale. Yeah.
Kirsty Knight:
I love it. Okay, amazing. So thank you so much. So that’s awesome.
Morgan Gillis:
Do you want me to do a quick recap on the yeah, that’d be amazing. Okay, so I’ll just say seven steps to selling in the DMs. The first thing is diagnosing, which is the same thing that you’d be doing in the first 40 ish minutes of a sales call. Right, cool. How are you connection? Where are you now? Where are you trying to go? What’s the problem? What’s the gap?
Kirsty Knight:
Right.
Morgan Gillis:
If you think you can help, you proceed. If you don’t think you can help, you stop.
Kirsty Knight:
Right?
Morgan Gillis:
So number one is like diagnosing. Number two is you’re kind of presenting the name, the big dream outcome that they’re going to get, lose 20 pounds, hit ten K month, whatever, and then sort of like the benefits or what you’ll actually be working through, which for me is like, hey, we’re going to work on niche offer legion sales, right? Yeah. Then you kind of get into the third piece as you get into the features more so community access, slack support, DA DA DA. Right. What time the group calls are, et cetera. And then the fourth part is price and payment plans. The fifth part is like a fast action bonus if you have one, which I totally 18 out of ten recommend that you do. The 6th part is a risk reversal, which I also 18 out of ten recommend that you do. And then the 7th part is answering objections and obviously getting permission if they say yes to send the link. So that’s kind of the seven steps, but it should literally mirror exact same thing you’re doing on a sales call. Yeah.
Kirsty Knight:
But it gives you the flexibility to be essentially selling your offer to people who want it, who’ve inquired without you having to find the time. And that’s super useful because I know a lot of the business owners that follow me are mums and they don’t have loads of free time in their calendars. So basically, rather than risking losing the sale or not knowing what to do when somebody messages you and they say, I’m interested in this, and then either not getting back to them because they don’t know what to say, or them saying, yeah, we’ll have to book in a call, and that’s the first thing. This is a way that you can start that conversation and then actually make a sale.
Morgan Gillis:
And as a total side note, I think this is maybe important just so people realize how much you can use this. But when we started working together, when I did the January launch of the full time fast track, I did that all through sales calls. And honestly, I’m running everything. You know, I have no help, which we need to talk about, and I’m running everything. And then I had to do like 30 something sales calls in the span of a couple of weeks as well. And that was like very taxing on me, right? Yeah. And then that was great. You know, that was awesome. But then when March came around, I was like, tough frick if I want to give up my life again like I had to do in January, I was like, I just don’t want to do that many sales calls. And so I was like, I’m going to do a Master class launch instead of doing all the sales calls. But what actually ended up happening is I think I double sold out my launch, and 80% of it was from selling in the DMs. It was like one hundred and twenty K sales month. And like 80% of it, like 20% came from the Masterclass, sure. But 80% came from selling in the DMs. And the only way that I could do that in such that was in the span of just very short space of time. But the only way that that was possible is because I did so much of it through the DMs. And so it can be wildly impactful if you do it right. If you’re just giving them the price, then don’t say that it didn’t work, right?
Kirsty Knight:
Yeah. And I love that because I think that particularly for people who don’t just have one one to one spot and they’re trying to find space for that. People who are trying to fill a group. If you are a coach or if you have an online program or whatever that you’re trying to sell people into, then if you’re trying to find space for 30 sales calls or even more because if you’re not 100% conversion rate on your sales is like you need to do even more than the numbers that you want in there.
Morgan Gillis:
Yeah.
Kirsty Knight:
So this is a really nice way to leverage your time.
Morgan Gillis:
Totally. Can I do a total free thing shameless plug right now?
Kirsty Knight:
Since we’re here, which can I said you could.
Morgan Gillis:
It’s for the absolute benefit of the audience. We know that. But I would just say, like, if you want a training on this, I literally filmed an actual full blown mini training that’s on Kajabi, for frick’s sakes. With like an actual here’s me breaking down the seven steps in a training. Here’s me actually doing it. Like I literally screen recorded my DMs. And I’m like, here’s what I said. Here here’s why I said this. Here’s what. They said. Here’s. What? I said back. Like, you can see everything.
Kirsty Knight:
I love it.
Morgan Gillis:
And then there’s a checklist so you can’t mess it up. So if you want that, I’m just going to say legitimately pause this podcast. Right? Well, I guess you have to still be listening to this. Open your phone and click on the friggin Instagram app and literally type into the search bar at I Am Morgan Gillis. And just hit message and just DM me the words selling in the DMs. And I will give this to you for free and you can go do it. So hopefully that’s helpful. But that’s my give.
Kirsty Knight:
That’s lovely. And they will appreciate that, I’m sure. Okay, amazing. Thank you so much. And then the last couple of things before we dive into you was batching content. This is anything that you can talk about regarding saving time, like batching content and also making your content easy. So I know one of the things that I loved about you and actually gave me permission to do my reels a little bit more. Like, I’m just going to talk at the camera. I was already doing it for Facebook Lives, but I hadn’t started doing it on Instagram. Yeah, your reels are always very much just like your head talking to the camera. There’s like a saying that’s like, head to the camera or something. I can’t remember.
Morgan Gillis:
I don’t know what it’s called.
Kirsty Knight:
But anyway, yeah, talk about batching content and making your content easy in terms of helping them create in less time.
Morgan Gillis:
Yeah. So I would say with making your content easy. If you follow me on Instagram, you’ll see that most of my content, I usually filming content just on a walk. And it’s because I get great ideas when I’m out walking and I’m already going for a walk. Anyways, I was already going to do that. And so I just combined my steps with like it’s same with selling in the D. I’m always combining steps with everything is why I hit my ten K steps every day, because I’m selling in the DMs and I’m creating content when I’m doing them. But if you can do things like that, where you can kind of feed two birds with one seed, for lack of better words, and you’re doing something you’re already doing anyway, that’s easy for me. Sometimes I could go on a walk and come back and have an hour walk, feel great, and have like six pieces of content filmed. Right. And so that is actually possible if you number one. Don’t make really difficult things like these reels that people do with like, 17 outfit changes. I’m like, why? What if that real flops? Which it like you’ve so much invested in that one thing. It’s like, just don’t pick hard stuff. Pick stuff that’s easy. Pick a reels with like, no outfit changes. Pick one that’s 7 seconds to do a dancing thing, too, instead of 90, right? Right. For me, I just know myself well and I know that it’s very easy for me to get on camera and just give you what you need to hear. And the only thing that I have to think about when I’m creating a reel like that is structurally, is this structurally set up to capture attention and get visibility. Which really just means is the friggin headline good enough? That’s pretty much it. So I get an idea when I’m out walking and I’m like, cool, this is valuable. I can teach people something about this. How do I turn this idea into a hook or a headline? And then when I speak, that real. That is the first sentence that’s out of my mouth and that hooks people in and I just tell them what I’m going to need. Tell them, give them the steps, give them the story, give them whatever. And at the end I make a call to action. But that’s like in the easiest way to make your content is those three steps, the hook and the headline is the most important. But just like you could do it while you’re walking, you can do it whatever, but just don’t pick hard things I think is the biggest thing.
Kirsty Knight:
Right? And I think that helps with consistency as well. Because you either batch it, you either decide like, all right, I’m going to plan it ahead of time and then batch it and then I’ll have the content that I can schedule so I don’t have to be showing up every day. And you could do both, but if it’s either or, you show up naturally with an idea every day and you just put it out there. But again, and I love that you taught that because I was very bad at that. I was very good at coming up with something helpful that I can talk to them about on my dog walk, but hopeless at giving them a headline, like a hook that pulled them in. And you said to me at the time, and it was like a real time optimization thing of like there’s really no point in you even creating the rest of the content if you can’t hook them in in the first few seconds because they’re not going to watch it. And I think I was creating a lot of content that people just weren’t watching and then that’s super frustrating as well and demoralizing and all the rest of it. So I think that making sure that structurally it is sound. Also making sure that it falls into one of those buckets that we talked about isn’t just tips, not just doing tips.
Morgan Gillis:
I was just going to say something. One thing that’s interesting about the content that I do walking the reels, usually they’re tips because that’s mostly what I get the ideas for when I’m out walking. So I think that a lot of the walking, real ones tend to be more that nurture tips content. Like if I’m going to write a social proof piece of content or a framework piece of content, I’m probably going to do that in a care cell and I have to sit there and think about the headline for that and pull the screenshots for the client stuff or go create the thing on canva. So I would say like, social proof ones sometimes work a lot better on carousels. Same with the frameworks. The belief shifting ones. Funny enough though, they can actually work great if you get an idea in your head of kind of how to shift a belief or something like that. Honestly, some of the posts that do so well for me, I just pull out my Notes app and I literally just type my thoughts into Notes and I’ll type one little bit and space it.
Kirsty Knight:
Oh, I do that and then type.
Morgan Gillis:
A lot and then space it and then just take screenshots of my Notes app and just upload it to Instagram. And they do so well. So that’s another way that you could they actually get some of the best engagement is those just thoughts straight to Notes app.
Kirsty Knight:
I love that. Yeah. But make sure that if you’re not, the only thing that comes to mind is tips. Make sure that you are sitting down and planning the rest of the content or batching it or whatever so that you can show up with the other stuff.
Morgan Gillis:
I think, yeah, I would say something along the lines of, like, I would aim to have a solid testimonial social proof and maybe a solid belief surgery shifting type post. Like once a week. Okay. If you can aim and you can hit those once a week so you have something like that. But also you’ve got tons of nurture in there. I think that’s a good cadence.
Kirsty Knight:
Nice.
Morgan Gillis:
But if you’re not doing that, probably missing the mark. Yeah, right. Okay.
Kirsty Knight:
Amazing. All right, is there anything else you want to share regarding your expertise around optimizing time? If you’re loads of things.
Morgan Gillis:
I think just the last thing that I would say is in terms of are we still talking about content batching stuff or are we sort of on my own personal stuff before we get.
Kirsty Knight:
To the personal stuff?
Morgan Gillis:
Okay, so I would say the last thing is in terms of batching and just a couple of other random things that make things easier for me in terms of batching. One thing that you really need to have I have an app on my phone, it’s called Todoist. Oh, yeah, I used to have yeah, it just allows you to have some boards. I have one I don’t even know. I have one project with a bunch of different boards. Like, it’s one project called Content, but there’s a board for reels, there’s a board for carousels, there’s a board for emails, there’s a board for podcasts. And so when I’m out walking. Let’s say I can’t film that thing or I’m on a client call or something. I just need a place to document that idea because I’m inspired by it in the moment. But if I don’t just create, like the easiest time to create is right then and there. But sometimes you cannot do that and you will lose it if you don’t document it. And so having a spot where you can have that documented, that if you are batching your content, like, let’s say you decide, I’m going to create all my content. I’m going to film all my reels on Friday mornings. Cool. Then you don’t show up to film your reels and you’re like, I have no idea what to talk about. So have a spot. Actually, I’m not even saying it can be helpful. You need to have a spot to document your ideas. And if it’s helpful for you, you can have a designated day per week to batch your reels, batch your emails, whatever. Like when Reels first came out and I was super awkward, like Bambi and ice with that. Like Fridays, all day Fridays was like, let’s figure out reels. So batching Kimberly really helpful. Definitely have a spot to record your stuff. And if you are doing reels, the one person I actually do pay to help me with things is my video editor. And that’s been very, very helpful. So it is nice just like not having to having him put fancy captions on there and not having to do it myself.
Kirsty Knight:
Right?
Morgan Gillis:
You can just get away with the Instagram captions. And that can be also really quick too. Like just put a headline and put captions. But I do kind of like having the editors. It’s really great. It looks a little sexier and I don’t have to do it myself because editing videos is just not the highest use of my time.
Kirsty Knight:
No, it’s definitely not amazing. Okay, so personally then, just anything that helps you with the juggle, like the work life balance, making time for you. Any tips or anything that you found to be super useful the way that you do it.
Morgan Gillis:
I think the biggest things in terms of personal tips or advice on kind of the way I structure things is like this is almost like a bigger picture, strategic thing for how I organize my time. But I try not to take any client calls until later in the day. I try not to take any client calls until like 12:00 p.m. Or later. Now that I’m in a different time zone, almost all my client calls are at like 04:00. I have nothing on my calendar until like four. It’s like incredible because it used to be at 12:00 in Pacific Time, but in Atlantic Time it’s like way later. But what that allows you to do is it allows you to have you ever read the book The One Thing, by the way?
Kirsty Knight:
Yes.
Morgan Gillis:
Right. Okay. So I’m a huge believer in that is like, do you have a four hour block of time? And some people are going to be like, they’re going to be like a mom listening to this. And they’re like, I hate this chick, right? And so sorry if that’s you, but it’s like can you find blocks of time in your calendar where you can do deep focused work? Because like, continually context switching from I’m filming a training to like, I’m in the DMs, to I’m posting content, I’m filming this, I’m back to Michael. It’s a nightmare. It’s like my worst it’s like a nightmare for me. So I try to have clear calendar space for like 4 hours in the morning, not taking calls before like, twelve. That’s one big thing. If there’s tasks that I really don’t like, I actually do set a timer. I actually do love the pomodoro timer. Like, if I’m doing taxes or something, it’s like, cool. If I just set 25 minutes, it’s hard to start, but once you start, you’re halfway done, right? So it’s like if I just set 25 minutes, that’s like more approachable for me and I can just hit start and then I’m like, okay, cool, I’m into it. Maybe on the break I’ll do like ten squats or something just to liven myself up. Try to get some again, feed two birds at one seed, get some workout.
Kirsty Knight:
By the way, I love that saying. It’s like, so much nicer than kill two birds with 1 st. I’m like, this is lovely.
Morgan Gillis:
I tried to make it positive. We’re trying to spread positivity, not violence here. So, yeah, the pomodoro works well. I don’t always like it’s not as good for creative tasks. Like, if you’re like, into a creative you’re in flow, not as good, but if it’s a task you don’t really want to do and you’re just like, I find it really helpful. And then the last thing would just be using some sort of planner. Google Calendar is great, but also I have a paper one all the time and I try not to put too much stuff on it. And if I can have that set the night before or at least the morning, I think that gives my brain priority of like, okay, I’m working on this, I’m working on this. And then you get the fun dopamine of checking things off. You’re like, oh yeah, so accomplished.
Kirsty Knight:
Amazing. That is completely in line with what I teach. I teach all of those strategies.
Morgan Gillis:
Yeah, I love it.
Kirsty Knight:
Amazing. Okay. And then lastly, just because we’re all human and I want to make sure that we normalize, the struggles of things that we’re not juggling so well, or things that we definitely could be doing better time wise in our business or whatever. What do you think is the biggest thing that you have that’s holding you back from either getting to that next level or creating the work life balance that you want?
Morgan Gillis:
Totally. I would say the biggest thing holding me back from getting to that next level right now is I do just need to hire more people. I’ve been doing everything myself up until this point, with the exception of the video editor, and I have had a couple VA type things that I kind of did hire and then kind of did take over myself. So maybe again, yet again, it’s like, maybe you do need her help. But yeah, I probably need to hire more people.
Kirsty Knight:
What do you think is getting in the way of you doing that work?
Morgan Gillis:
Part of it. This is so strange. In some ways, I love my money beliefs and they really, really serve me in some ways. In some ways, I think that my margins are incredible right now. And it’s like, I don’t want to give any of that. I don’t. But I think that’s again, it’s like, well, there’s probably some belief surgery that needs to happen there and logically I get it. And I think it actually is starting to sink in now. I think I’m actually making progress in this direction. But yeah, I think that’s one reason. Some of it’s, like, just not taking the time to make cool. You want help? Yeah. You don’t know how to hire people yet. Do you think that maybe, like, sales calls that’s a skill that you need to learn? Probably. But instead I’m just like, I just want it done, but I don’t want to do the work of getting it done.
Kirsty Knight:
I hear you. I was totally there.
Morgan Gillis:
Yeah. So it’s one of these things where it’s like, I want the help, but I don’t want to make the time to do it. And now I’m starting to understand, like, hey, this is not some extra thing on your to do list today. That’s whatever holding you down. This is the work that you need to do to get to the next level. Like, this is the work. Like, what else do you need to be doing today? You need to be hiring someone. You need to be getting these skills. So I think there’s probably some money beliefs, there probably some just not having the skills. And it being new and uncomfortable for me, like, going to the gym and being like, I’m so intimidated because I’ve never worked out before in my life. And there’s some resistance and then I’m sure there’s some degree of control there. Like, even with my taxes right now, I know that I have everything organized the way that I want. And I’m like, I don’t really want someone to come in here and f this up or I don’t really want someone to be responding to these content and do something stupid that I wouldn’t do, responding to these comments. Just stuff like that.
Kirsty Knight:
That’s so good and it’s so common. I’ve coached on that numerous times with different people. It’s either usually a money scarcity thing, a control thing, or I don’t want to do the work to streamline, to create systems, like SOPs that I can then have someone come in and just take over, because that requires a certain degree of time and effort to sit down. It’s very tedious. It can be tedious, can be boring. And that is something that I help people with in my programs, basically, because it’s like, sometimes you need handholding to do certain things. I definitely did, and at the time, I would have loved if a coach had offered that to me. I didn’t have the handholding early enough really to do it. And so sometimes you just need a little bit of handholding to make yourself sit down and create an SOP to then be like, 100%. You can take over now. You can do this job.
Morgan Gillis:
Like, sometimes that resistance is so high because it’s new and uncomfortable that you just never get around to it because you just don’t want to do it. And so, like, that person to kind of nudge you in the right direction and be like, hey, like me with my clients being like, so, listen, I don’t see any sales stories this week, like, what’s going on? To make the move to that uncomfortability and just do the thing and get the results.
Kirsty Knight:
Yeah, I love it. Amazing. This has been so good. Is there anything else that you want to add before we wrap up?
Morgan Gillis:
I think that we covered most of it. I will just say this is definitely a new big next step for me is, like, hiring some people and the next I’ve already kind of taken a baby step today. I’m like, okay, bookkeeper. Here you go.
Kirsty Knight:
You get all of this is amazing. What? Today was literally, today was the day.
Morgan Gillis:
Yeah, I emailed her yesterday. We met the hour of war on this. And I was like, So listen, I’ve taken this as far as I want to take this. Here you go. And I started working on some SOPs today to hire a VA to do some of the Legion.
Kirsty Knight:
There’s a happy ending. I’m impressed. This is excellent. Yeah. A bookkeeper was the first thing that I needed to really, totally, properly outsource. Your accounts were at least in order when you gave it to her. Mine was like a complete well batch.
Morgan Gillis:
You think they’re getting there? Let me tell you, there’s some stuff going on with that. I’ve got USD currency. I’ve got Canadian currency in the same thing. I’ve got three different personal cards, four different business accounts. It’s legitimately a nightmare. Yeah.
Kirsty Knight:
I’m sure they’ll be able to manage it.
Morgan Gillis:
Pumped.
Kirsty Knight:
She’s like, favorite new favorite client. Yeah, I love it. Okay, well, this has been lovely. Thank you so much, Morgan, for coming on and having this conversation with me. I think it’s going to be super helpful for everyone who’s listening to this. Yeah. Loads of good nuggets in there. So just to finish, what is the best way for them to find you? If they love the sound of what you do, obviously, they probably will. And if they’re potentially interested in your offerings and I don’t recommend people lightly unless I’ve actually worked with someone, you’ll very rarely hear me say, I recommend this person. I will say, oh, I know someone who does this, if I can make a referral type thing. But I absolutely really loved working with Morgan, and she’s very good, as you can tell, if you’ve listened into this, she knows his stuff in marketing, selling, and you’ve helped me. So basically, if they’re interested, where can they find you?
Morgan Gillis:
Totally. First of all, thank you. Appreciate the lovely words. Also had a blast working together. But, yeah, I would say if you are I would even say, who knows if you’re interested. I mean, maybe you already are cool DM Me clients. But I would just be like, hey, just come into my world and consume some of the content and get some free value and look at how I have my Instagram account set up and look at how I sell in stories and just take some value. And if I ever speak to you in a way and you’re like, okay, cool. I need your help, great. But I would just say be an action freaking taker right now and actually take out your phone. Hopefully, they’re listening if they get their phone somewhere and go to the Instagram app, and at the very least, just follow me. Like, just literally go open the Instagram app right now. Type in the search bar at. I am Morgan Gillis. Just hit follow. I’d love for you to say hi. If you want the selling in the DMs training, just DM me selling in the DMs. But otherwise, just say hi, and let’s have a chat, and I’d love to meet you. And who knows? Maybe I can find some other mini training that might be really valuable for you that I can pass along. But that’s the number one place I am. I have no website, just Instagram.
Kirsty Knight:
And I love that because it shows that you get your clients through Instagram. People find you through Instagram. I found you through Instagram, and you never snuck into my DMs and were like, hey, do you want to buy my thing at all? I think a reel got pushed to me. I watched your reels, and then I.
Morgan Gillis:
Think it was the headline.
Kirsty Knight:
I can’t remember what it was, but I do remember that you liked a story of mine, I think. And then I had seen some more of your content, and then I reached out to you. So it’s not can I just I.
Morgan Gillis:
Just want to I just want I just want to recap on this for everyone listening so that they understand how the ecosystem worked. Right here. One reels went to her. She probably liked it, and I was paying attention, right? The headline was good. It got pushed to her. She probably liked it. I was paying attention. I made one content, and then the algorithm was like, oh, these guys are talking. And then they sent her more of my content, and then she slid into my DM. So, like, total shameless plug for everything that you just learned in this thing. It all frigging works.
Kirsty Knight:
Absolutely. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And it was seamless. And I hired you because I was like, oh, she knows what she’s doing. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so go check her out. I’ll put the link to your Instagram on the show notes. Yeah. Thank you again so much.
Morgan Gillis:
This was a blast. Thanks for having me.
Kirsty Knight:
You’re welcome. And thank you, everyone, for tuning in. I will be back next week, so have a good one. If you enjoyed listening to this podcast and you are serious about getting back in control of your time yet, you have not yet mastered your calendar, make sure that you download my free Time Blocking 101 guide. This will give you a really good foundation on which to build your own time system that works for you. The easiest way to get this is to go to my Instagram page at KirstyKnight coaching. That’s K-I-R-S-T-Y-K-N-I-G-H-T coaching. And click the link in my bio for it.
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